where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - Squier - 17:15 12-11-08
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Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
halted production.
And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
how did people get tubes for their amps ? Fender CBS (for one)
was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
luck. And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
all closed down tube production.
So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from (??)
I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
since the end of the cold war
from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
current production 6L6's today into the amp. I was thinking
what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - dugjustdug - 17:24 12-11-08
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On Nov 12, 2:15=A0pm, Squier <squ...@strats.net> wrote:
> Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
> current production 6L6's today into the amp. =A0I was thinking
> what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
> prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
It's funny that the news media never played Pres. Reagan's complete
quote. "Mr. Gorbachev - Tear down that wall! <tape stopped> olddog
& dvoaa need Sovtek Tubes!" ;-) Of course, who am I to talk as I was
waiting in gas lines and looking at an 18% first mortgage about then...
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - RichL - 17:47 12-11-08
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Squier <squier@strats.net> wrote:
> Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
> But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
> any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
> or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
> I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
> halted production.
> And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
> how did people get tubes for their amps ? Fender CBS (for one)
> was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
> manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
> had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
>
> So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
> full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
> luck. And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
> must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
> they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
> all closed down tube production.
>
> So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
> then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from
> (??)
>
> I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
> being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
> since the end of the cold war
> from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
> facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
>
> Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
> current production 6L6's today into the amp. I was thinking
> what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
> prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
I don't have anything to contribute but I'm interested in hearing the
answer. I had ditched all my tube amps well before then, and I got by
on a series of cheapo SS amps up until about 5 years ago. No gigging,
little playing (just noodling around at home until my kids all grew up).
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - The Chris - 18:06 12-11-08
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Squier <squier@strats.net> wrote in news:121120081715151575%
squier@strats.net:
> Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
> But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
> any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
> or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
> I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
> halted production.
> And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
> how did people get tubes for their amps ? Fender CBS (for one)
> was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
> manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
> had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
>
> So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
> full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
> luck. And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
> must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
> they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
> all closed down tube production.
>
> So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
> then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from (??)
>
> I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
> being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
> since the end of the cold war
> from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
> facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
>
> Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
> current production 6L6's today into the amp. I was thinking
> what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
> prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
New Sensor/Sovtek - Mike Matthews (Electro-Harmonix) did some good
business those years :)
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - RichCI - 18:34 12-11-08
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On Nov 12, 5:15=A0pm, Squier <squ...@strats.net> wrote:
> Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
> But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
> any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
> or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
> I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
> halted production.
> And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
> how did people get tubes for their amps ? =A0Fender CBS (for one)
> was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
> manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
> had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
>
> So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
> full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
> luck. =A0And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
> must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
> they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
> all closed down tube production.
>
> So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
> then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from (??)
>
> I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
> being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
> since the end of the cold war
> from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
> facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
>
> Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
> current production 6L6's today into the amp. =A0I was thinking
> what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
> prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
I'll take a guess.
Not until the early 2000's did older vacuum tubes start to become
scarce so I would think that during the 80's there was plenty of old
stock still around, particularly from military surplus. I'm sure
someone like Lord Valve or someone else who is more into tubes could
shed better light on this.
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - jtees4 - 18:38 12-11-08
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:15:15 -0500, Squier <squier@strats.net> wrote:
>Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
>But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
>any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
>or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
>I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
>halted production.
>And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
>how did people get tubes for their amps ? Fender CBS (for one)
>was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
>manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
>had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
>
>So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
>full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
>luck. And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
>must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
>they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
>all closed down tube production.
>
>So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
>then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from (??)
>
>I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
>being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
>since the end of the cold war
>from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
>facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
>
>Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
>current production 6L6's today into the amp. I was thinking
>what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
>prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
I guess I'm speaking more from a 70's and maybe early 80's perspective
BUT there were some local TV repair shops that had big stocks of old
tubes...but also...back then we rarely changed tubes. We'd just keep
using the old one forever...or buy a new one.
***********
We will review your music for you! Totally FREE:
http://reviewmymusicnow.com/
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) -
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On Nov 12, 5:34=A0pm, RichCI <ric...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not until the early 2000's did older vacuum tubes start to become
> scarce so I would think that during the 80's there was plenty of old
> stock still around, particularly from military surplus. =A0I'm sure
> someone like Lord Valve or someone else who is more into tubes could
> shed better light on this.
There still were a lot of major US brands available in the 80s. Or at
least
for many applications.
I used a lot of tubes back then running ham gear. RCA's were around
for
a good while I know. Heck, I've bought NOS RCA's even in the 90's.
But those were 6146's, not 6L6's.. :/
But there were still loads of tubes being sold at flea markets for
quite a while. Even still today actually. Except the prices are
jumping up naturally. And more and more of what you see are
used pulls, instead of new.
My tube days are pretty much over. I don't think I'll ever be buying
any more of it, unless it's for a collectible.
I've still got some tube ham gear, but it will be the last I own.
All my newer stuff is solid state, digital, etc..
But I'll keep the old stuff around because it's still pretty good,
and the receive audio is nice on the old tube receivers.
"I've got one of the first Drake R4 receivers built. A 1965 model,
and serial #0058. Nice smooth audio off that all tube radio."
I also have a fairly old Kenwood TS-830S, and it's tube final, "6146",
but the receiver is solid state and very good. So I doubt I'll be
dumping it anytime soon.
My main amplifier is a Henry 2K Classic which runs two 3-500Z
tubes, and Eimac no longer makes those. Mine still has a
pair of Eimacs, but if they blow up, I'll have to go to some offshore
brand I imagine.
But... I've of the notion to pretty much retire that warship and
get a small medium power solid state amp. Say about 500-600
watts. No tuning, no high voltage, no futzing around.. Just
key up and yak..
My Henry runs appx 3400 volts on high tap, at about 800 MA.
Does about 1300-1400 watts out with 100w input.
It'll do the legal limit 1500w if you drive the snot out of it... :/
Many rigs can do 120W plus, so it's not too hard.
Gotta watch that grid current though.. Too much, no bueno..
I still use tube geetar amps, but that's about it..
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - AJ - 20:30 12-11-08
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In article <121120081715151575%squier@strats.net>, squier@strats.net
says...
> Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
> But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
> any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
> or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
> I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
> halted production.
> And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
> how did people get tubes for their amps ? Fender CBS (for one)
> was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
> manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
> had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
>
> So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
> full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
> luck. And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
> must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
> they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
> all closed down tube production.
>
> So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
> then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from (??)
>
> I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
> being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
> since the end of the cold war
> from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
> facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
>
> Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
> current production 6L6's today into the amp. I was thinking
> what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
> prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
>
I believe the last U.S. tube plants shut down in '86 or '87(G.E. &
Phillips/Sylvania), RCA a little sooner. I have a number of NOS JAN
power tubes with that date, so the military was ordering them at least
that long. As I understand it, B52 bombers use 5881's(the small bottle
Phillips/Sylvania 6L6WGB) for servo controllers(???) or something
related to nuclear weapons, as tubes are immune to EMP. I'm less clear
on Europe, but I believe Siemens & Phillips kept a plant going for quite
a while, and I don't think the EI/Yugo plant ever shut down.
In in any case, amp makers must have placed big orders, because as I
remember, U.S. tubes didn't start to get scarce until the early '90s.
Groove Tubes also got it's start back then, selling NOS tubes, and as
they became scarce, Chinese tubes which came a few years before the
Russian Sovtek tubes. Things got a whole lot better by around '96 when a
number of military bases were closed and a large number of Navy Ships
were decommissioned. That's when container loads of the NOS JAN tubes
which are starting to become scarce today hit the market.
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - boardjunkie - 23:29 12-11-08
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On Nov 12, 8:30=A0pm, AJ <So...@nomail.com> wrote:
> In article <121120081715151575%squ...@strats.net>, squ...@strats.net
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
> > But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
> > any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
> > or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
> > I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
> > halted production.
> > And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
> > how did people get tubes for their amps ? =A0Fender CBS (for one)
> > was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
> > manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
> > had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
>
> > So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
> > full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
> > luck. =A0And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
> > must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
> > they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
> > all closed down tube production.
>
> > So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
> > then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from (??)
>
> > I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
> > being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
> > since the end of the cold war
> > from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
> > facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
>
> > Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
> > current production 6L6's today into the amp. =A0I was thinking
> > what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
> > prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
>
> I believe the last U.S. tube plants shut down in '86 or '87(G.E. &
> Phillips/Sylvania), RCA a little sooner. I have a number of NOS JAN
> power tubes with that date, so the military was ordering them at least
> that long. As I understand it, B52 bombers use 5881's(the small bottle
> Phillips/Sylvania 6L6WGB) for servo controllers(???) or something
> related to nuclear weapons, as tubes are immune to EMP. I'm less clear
> on Europe, but I believe Siemens & Phillips kept a plant going for quite
> a while, and I don't think the EI/Yugo plant ever shut down.
>
> In in any case, amp makers must have placed big orders, because as I
> remember, U.S. tubes didn't start to get scarce until the early '90s.
> Groove Tubes also got it's start back then, selling NOS tubes, and as
> they became scarce, Chinese tubes which came a few years before the
> Russian Sovtek tubes. Things got a whole lot better by around '96 when a
> number of military bases were closed and a large number of Navy Ships
> were decommissioned. That's when container loads of the NOS JAN tubes
> which are starting to become scarce today hit the market.- Hide quoted te=
xt -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sylvania was the last to close the doors in 1987. Old stock tubes were
still available........all the mfgrs were buying big stocks of them to
keep them going since they were still offering tube amps (the Peavey
VTM120 I bought new in 1990 came with Sylvania STR 6L6s). Once they
were gone.......they were gone.
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Re: where did the tubes come from (1980's tube amps) - Meat Plow - 02:04 13-11-08
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:15:15 -0500, Squier <squier@strats.net>wrote:
>Yeah I know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
>But it seems to me that during the 'cold war' era that
>any tubes that were being made in China or Soviet Union
>or Soviet bloc countries were not available to the US.
>I am not sure however when exactly English tube makers
>halted production.
>And so when US makers of tubes closed their doors then
>how did people get tubes for their amps ? Fender CBS (for one)
>was still making tube amps into the 1980's after US tube
>manufacturers had stopped production (even the US Military
>had ceased tube orders in the 1980's).
>
>So I am assuming that unless you happen to have a drawer
>full of spare tubes from previous years you were out of
>luck. And I also assume that Fender (and other amp makers)
>must have used tubes they still had in inventory since apparently
>they couldn't order any more since GE/RCA/Sylvania et al had
>all closed down tube production.
>
>So.. any info from people actually using tube amps back
>then would be interesting to know how or where the tubes came from (??)
>
>I also seems to me that the new proliferation of tube amps
>being made today comes directly from the easily obtainable tubes
>since the end of the cold war
>from Russian and former Soviet countries and China production
>facilities that are still going strong and were not shut down.
>
>Anyways tubes were on my mind as I was putting in some
>current production 6L6's today into the amp. I was thinking
>what crap it would be if in the past I would have to pay NOS
>prices since there would be no other way to get tubes (??)
I've always used GE/RCA/Philips. My 6L6 preference was Philips JAN and
now the NOS. RCA made a tasty 6CA7 that I used in my Traynor. GE JAN
tubes were always good. Don't know if that answers your question
though. LV probably could give a better one.
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