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Guitar Discussions -> Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement
There are 34 messages in this thread.
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Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - DeeAa - 10:07 02-11-08
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This subject keeps popping up all the time...well I just spent a good
hour going over my pedal order and testing various things. I don't
have lots of pedals, but here's a few points I noticed are very
important to me for my sounds when it comes to OD:
1. The last one in the chain can't be digital or processing unit,
instead it's the perfect spot for the main OD pedal.
2. The first place in chain is good for a booster/lead OD.
A simple OD can drive the amp with a real organic feel and drive. It
feels like it interacts with the amp input, very responsive and
doesn't change the sound of direct sound at all really, just adds a
little more drive. Feels just like adding more natural amp gain. BUT
if you insert anything 'digital' in between you lose all the organic
feel. For me, if I put my BBE Sonic Maximizer last, after OD, sure,
the effect is more pronounced, BUT even if I tone the effect down, I
lose the organic feel. It just starts sounding way more digital. Plus
I get these ultra-high squeaks in high solo bends then. So I say,
_always_ put your best OD last, and it's all good and warm and thick
and the way it should be.
Booster/OD however is best near or at the front because 1st of all,
when an OD pedal is placed before, not after, a compressor, the
compressor lifts the sustain and drive of the pedal to the 2nd
potency. In a word, after a compressor, you get a crunchy rock sound,
before the comp the same drive makes it easy to pretend being a guitar
hero. Secondly, before all else the effect also affects how other FX
sound/how much they effect the sound and the overall effect of boost
is more pronounced and the difference to rhythm sound clearer.
Any comments, similar notions or completely different views?
Cheers,
Dee
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - ed s - 10:43 02-11-08
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On Nov 2, 9:07=A0am, DeeAa <aephei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This subject keeps popping up all the time...well I just spent a good
> hour going over my pedal order and testing various things. I don't
> have lots of pedals, but here's a few points I noticed are very
> important to me for my sounds when it comes to OD:
>
> 1. The last one in the chain can't be digital or processing unit,
> instead it's the perfect spot for the main OD pedal.
> 2. The first place in chain is good for a booster/lead OD.
>
> A simple OD can drive the amp with a real organic feel and drive. It
> feels like it interacts with the amp input, very responsive and
> doesn't change the sound of direct sound at all really, just adds a
> little more drive. Feels just like adding more natural amp gain. BUT
> if you insert anything 'digital' in between you lose all the organic
> feel. For me, if I put my BBE Sonic Maximizer last, after OD, sure,
> the effect is more pronounced, BUT even if I tone the effect down, I
> lose the organic feel. It just starts sounding way more digital. Plus
> I get these ultra-high squeaks in high solo bends then. So I say,
> _always_ put your best OD last, and it's all good and warm and thick
> and the way it should be.
>
> Booster/OD however is best near or at the front because 1st of all,
> when an OD pedal is placed before, not after, a compressor, the
> compressor lifts the sustain and drive of the pedal to the 2nd
> potency. In a word, after a compressor, you get a crunchy rock sound,
> before the comp the same drive makes it easy to pretend being a guitar
> hero. Secondly, before all else the effect also affects how other FX
> sound/how much they effect the sound and the overall effect of boost
> is more pronounced and the difference to rhythm sound clearer.
>
> Any comments, similar notions or completely different views?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
It all depends on what you have and want ( as always). Wha needs to be
first ( if you want one IMO) just seems to like the first hit from the
guitar. Echo / Reverb last othewise it get to cluttered.. 2
distortions in a row I think is a nice option (fat smooth ie tube
screamer first - then nasty overther the top next ie metal muff - use
one or both as desired - placed in the middle of the pack)..and as
little digital crap as possible! . but it all come down to "your
sound" - and what you want - you rock so I can't say your wrong -
just my 2c ed s.
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - Geetar Dave - 10:51 02-11-08
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On Nov 2, 10:07=A0am, DeeAa <aephei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Any comments, similar notions or completely different views?
I'm a bit confused about what you're calling the "front" and "end" of
your chain. Seems like your terms switched around, but I'm only midway
through my coffee.
;^)
Is the front nearest the guitar? Is the end nearest the amp? That's
how I think about it, in the direction the signal travels.
I like my OD closer to my guitar, personally, with mods & delays
nearer the amp. I treat my OD like a preamp, and boost it mildly with
a compressor, or significantly with a distortion box.
My live signal-path looks like this:
Guitar -->
* Wah
* Compressor
* Distortion
* Overdrive
* Volume (tuner attached)
* Delays
* Modulation.
-->Amplifier.
-dave-----:::
www.myspace.com/geetardave
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - DeeAa - 11:35 02-11-08
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On 2 marras, 17:51, Geetar Dave <e...@one.net> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 10:07=A0am, DeeAa <aephei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Any comments, similar notions or completely different views?
>
> I'm a bit confused about what you're calling the "front" and "end" of
> your chain. Seems like your terms switched around, but I'm only midway
> through my coffee.
> ;^)
>
> Is the front nearest the guitar? Is the end nearest the amp? That's
> how I think about it, in the direction the signal travels.
>
yep thats what I meant.
> I like my OD closer to my guitar, personally, with mods & delays
> nearer the amp. I treat my OD like a preamp, and boost it mildly with
> a compressor, or significantly with a distortion box.
>
Have you tried/do you like the distortion before the compressor? Have
you noticed how it's wayyy easier to play smoothly and 'sound fast' if
you have the drive before the comp?
Basically, what I tried to explain, is I found that I like it best
when I have an OD both at the guitar end and at the amp end, and
everything else in the middle.
IMO the basic drive seems to get too 'pumping' if the comp is after
that.
> My live signal-path looks like this:
> Guitar -->
> * Wah
> * Compressor
> * Distortion
> * Overdrive
> * Volume (tuner attached)
> * Delays
> * Modulation.
> -->Amplifier.
>
Yeah I'd put them the same way except the distortion before the comp,
and vol before the OD.
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - Jim - 13:44 02-11-08
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This is an area that deserves a lot of experimenting. I'm sure that my
neighbors often wonder why I play a few notes, a couple of chords...
pause five seconds... repeat... I've got too many pedals and too many
amps, but I have developed a couple of general rules for my tastes:
I generally prefer my favorite smoother pedal LAST in the chain. Most
aggressive to least aggressive (be that just OD's, or just distortions,
or a mix). I think this is in agreement with Dee's comments. It can be
used to smooth out harsher sounding pedals up chain.
I generally put digital pedals before analog, because if you overdrive
the input of a digital pedal, you can overload the A/D converter,
leading to garbage in the digital state. Garbage in = garbage out, not
digitally created distortion.
Finally, when I get my order down, I sometimes put my oscilloscope on
the end of it, with a 300 Hz sine wave in, to "see what I'm hearing." I
then swap things around to what I didn't like the sound of, and it's not
surprising that I see all kinds of weird spikes and odd wave forms. I
tend to go for complex organic tones, more of a 3D overdrive, rather
than a simple chopped off fuzz square wave with a treble spike.
But when I "scope" my metal settings, I see some interesting forms with
added in harmonics. When I dial in what I do NOT like, I generally find
a higher harmonic spike. That's often the cause of "buzzy tone." The
other thing you see with metal tones is that it only takes a couple of
mV of signal to start the clipping! Massive gain.
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - Derek - 15:34 02-11-08
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Love this discussion. Tone is such a fun topic, and how to get "your"
best tone with what you already have, is a great way to spend a few
hours. My current setup:
Wah
Compressor - I like the sound when my signal hits the comp first over
any other place.
Fuzz - fuzz first, as I like what it sounds like stacked with other OD
pedals
Low gain OD
High gain dist
Clean boost - per manufacturer's recommendation
Modulation
Delay
Tuner
All of my pedals, with the exception of my TU-2 are true bypass. I
use the buffered TU-2 as a signal buffer before it hits the amp to
strengthen it.
One of the reasons I bought the amp I have, is I REALLY like the drive
channel, and use it and the fuzz almost equally for dirt sounds.
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - Geetar Dave - 16:07 02-11-08
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On Nov 2, 11:35 am, DeeAa <aephei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Have you tried/do you like the distortion before the compressor? Have
> you noticed how it's wayyy easier to play smoothly and 'sound fast' if
> you have the drive before the comp?
I get those results, I think, with the distortion hitting the OD.
Since greater gain = greater clipping (which is also compression), I
don't like to combine compression and heavy distortion. Just my
opinion on how my own gear sounds, of course.
> Yeah I'd put them the same way except the distortion before the comp,
> and vol before the OD.
I used to have volume before OD, but then the volume interacted with
the OD gain, which was rarely the desired result. If I wanted cleaner,
but louder, I'd end up getting more drive. Conversely, when I turned
down, my gain cleaned up. I decided that those were useful features,
and I preferred to control them with my guitar volume.
So by putting my volume AFTER all my gain stages, I ended up with a
dynamic gain control on the guitar (to which the pedals respond) and
another one I could use to drive the amp itself.
Most of my gain staging problems vanished immediately upon putting my
volume after my gain pedals. Your mileage may vary.
-dave-----:::
www.myspace.com/geetardave
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - Tony Done - 16:29 02-11-08
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"DeeAa" <aepheikki@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e41c8d80-6ef6-4ce2-8bf7-c072212833c1@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> This subject keeps popping up all the time...well I just spent a good
> hour going over my pedal order and testing various things. I don't
> have lots of pedals, but here's a few points I noticed are very
> important to me for my sounds when it comes to OD:
>
> 1. The last one in the chain can't be digital or processing unit,
> instead it's the perfect spot for the main OD pedal.
> 2. The first place in chain is good for a booster/lead OD.
>
> A simple OD can drive the amp with a real organic feel and drive. It
> feels like it interacts with the amp input, very responsive and
> doesn't change the sound of direct sound at all really, just adds a
> little more drive. Feels just like adding more natural amp gain. BUT
> if you insert anything 'digital' in between you lose all the organic
> feel. For me, if I put my BBE Sonic Maximizer last, after OD, sure,
> the effect is more pronounced, BUT even if I tone the effect down, I
> lose the organic feel. It just starts sounding way more digital. Plus
> I get these ultra-high squeaks in high solo bends then. So I say,
> _always_ put your best OD last, and it's all good and warm and thick
> and the way it should be.
>
> Booster/OD however is best near or at the front because 1st of all,
> when an OD pedal is placed before, not after, a compressor, the
> compressor lifts the sustain and drive of the pedal to the 2nd
> potency. In a word, after a compressor, you get a crunchy rock sound,
> before the comp the same drive makes it easy to pretend being a guitar
> hero. Secondly, before all else the effect also affects how other FX
> sound/how much they effect the sound and the overall effect of boost
> is more pronounced and the difference to rhythm sound clearer.
>
> Any comments, similar notions or completely different views?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
Like Derek said, an interesting discussion and a good way the pass a few
hours mucking about if you want an excuse not to mow the lawn.
For me subtlety is everything, so I go
compression, 2-knob Behringer that seems to work just fine
boost, (BD-2, used "fat" with the treble rolled off),
OD, Tech 21 Character California, found just one setting I like
Delay - Ibanez DE-7
The only effect which is obvious is the delay, and even that isn't very
heavy.
I'm wondering if compression after OD doesn't generate a lot of noise.
I'm also wondering how to get that saturated saxophone-like sound, without
"grit".
Tony D
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - Squier - 17:01 02-11-08
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> DeeAa <aepheikki@gmail.com> wrote:
> This subject keeps popping up all the time...well I just spent a good
> hour going over my pedal order and testing various things. I don't
> have lots of pedals, but here's a few points I noticed are very
> important to me for my sounds when it comes to OD:
>
> 1. The last one in the chain can't be digital or processing unit,
> instead it's the perfect spot for the main OD pedal.
> 2. The first place in chain is good for a booster/lead OD.
>
> A simple OD can drive the amp with a real organic feel and drive. It
> feels like it interacts with the amp input, very responsive and
> doesn't change the sound of direct sound at all really, just adds a
> little more drive. Feels just like adding more natural amp gain. BUT
> if you insert anything 'digital' in between you lose all the organic
> feel. For me, if I put my BBE Sonic Maximizer last, after OD, sure,
> the effect is more pronounced, BUT even if I tone the effect down, I
> lose the organic feel. It just starts sounding way more digital. Plus
> I get these ultra-high squeaks in high solo bends then. So I say,
> _always_ put your best OD last, and it's all good and warm and thick
> and the way it should be.
>
> Booster/OD however is best near or at the front because 1st of all,
> when an OD pedal is placed before, not after, a compressor, the
> compressor lifts the sustain and drive of the pedal to the 2nd
> potency. In a word, after a compressor, you get a crunchy rock sound,
> before the comp the same drive makes it easy to pretend being a guitar
> hero. Secondly, before all else the effect also affects how other FX
> sound/how much they effect the sound and the overall effect of boost
> is more pronounced and the difference to rhythm sound clearer.
>
> Any comments, similar notions or completely different views?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
the only thing I differ with you in that depending on what pedals
I use (if I'm using pedals) then I like the compressor (Barber Tone Press) first
and then the OD. I have tried the OD before the compressor but I just
like the sounds better with the compressor first. But that's just me.
Any effects like delay I put at the end before sending it out to the amp.
So for example for me it's Tone Press -> TS9 -> Clean Boost -> Delay
or Tone Press -> Maxon TS9 -> Analog Delay -> Clean Boost (Meat Jr.)
or Tone Press -> Fuzz Face -> Clean Boost (kicked on or off when needed)
I use the clean boost just like a preset volume pedal
it doesn't really add anything unless I switch it to fat boost
and even then it only shapes the tone and doesn't really add in distortion,
just smacks the amp a little harder and helps the single coils with
some heavier rock.
I just think the OD before the compressor sounds way too umm.. processed
or less raw or something. Kinda like a sound you get in a studio rather than straight
up rock sounds. Hard to explain. But again that's just my ears.
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Re: Pedal order: a few notes on OD placement - Rufus - 23:56 02-11-08
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DeeAa wrote:
> This subject keeps popping up all the time...well I just spent a good
> hour going over my pedal order and testing various things. I don't
> have lots of pedals, but here's a few points I noticed are very
> important to me for my sounds when it comes to OD:
>
> 1. The last one in the chain can't be digital or processing unit,
> instead it's the perfect spot for the main OD pedal.
> 2. The first place in chain is good for a booster/lead OD.
>
> A simple OD can drive the amp with a real organic feel and drive. It
> feels like it interacts with the amp input, very responsive and
> doesn't change the sound of direct sound at all really, just adds a
> little more drive. Feels just like adding more natural amp gain. BUT
> if you insert anything 'digital' in between you lose all the organic
> feel. For me, if I put my BBE Sonic Maximizer last, after OD, sure,
> the effect is more pronounced, BUT even if I tone the effect down, I
> lose the organic feel. It just starts sounding way more digital. Plus
> I get these ultra-high squeaks in high solo bends then. So I say,
> _always_ put your best OD last, and it's all good and warm and thick
> and the way it should be.
>
> Booster/OD however is best near or at the front because 1st of all,
> when an OD pedal is placed before, not after, a compressor, the
> compressor lifts the sustain and drive of the pedal to the 2nd
> potency. In a word, after a compressor, you get a crunchy rock sound,
> before the comp the same drive makes it easy to pretend being a guitar
> hero. Secondly, before all else the effect also affects how other FX
> sound/how much they effect the sound and the overall effect of boost
> is more pronounced and the difference to rhythm sound clearer.
>
> Any comments, similar notions or completely different views?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dee
I also find that mixing digital and genuine analog pedals only shows up
the shortcomings of the digital ones if I run them in the same chain - I
put two my digital pedals into my effects loops and the balance is much
better than if I run any of them into the fronts of my amps. Yeah - what
you said about "organic feel" is right on on this point, IMO. Still -
where I find my BBE to REALLY shine is as the last effect in the chain
in the effects loop, and I wouldn't consider running it any other
way...but I also use the rack mount one and not the stomp, and I find
it's not all that "digital" sounding unless I over-process.
I recently pulled my Fulltone Ultimate Octave/Fuzz pedal off of my pedal
board and replaced it with my OCD...I am MUCH happier. My chain goes -
guitar-tuner-wah/volume-low pass filter-phaser-OCD-TTE-fronts of amps.
I was resisting putting in a drive pedal thinking I would saturate the
TTE, but the OCD provide way better drive/boost/sustain than the
Octave/Fuzz ever did. I much prefer drive pedals to fuzzes, I think.
And I like to get all my compression naturally from the tubes - I have a
vintage red MXR Dynacomp that I bought just because I could grab it
cheap (at the time) but I never really warmed to it and don't use it.
--
- Rufus
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