Good preamp OD?

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Good preamp OD? - Tony Done - 6-:24 -0-09-20

During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested in is
good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality saturation by
turning the gain up and the master down.

I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have this
ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master turned down? The
Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was too noisy for home use.

This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.

Tony D

Re: Good preamp OD? - RichL - 6-:24 -0-09-20

Tony Done <tonydone@bigpond.com> wrote:
> During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested
> in is good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality
> saturation by turning the gain up and the master down.
>
> I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have
> this ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master
> turned down? The Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was too
> noisy for home use.
>
> This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.

Marshall 2204 50 W master volume amps: either JMP or JCM. I have an '81
JCM 2204, one of the earliest ones. Really nice preamp OD although to
my ears it's lacking sufficient low end for some things.

The only other two master volume amps I have are Fenders: a Silverface
Twin and a Blues Junior. To me, the preamp distortion on these two
leaves much to be desired.

Re: Good preamp OD? - Tony Done - 6-:24 -0-09-20

"RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:J_-dncvQD_kRDN_XnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@supernews.com...
> Tony Done <tonydone@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested
>> in is good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality
>> saturation by turning the gain up and the master down.
>>
>> I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have
>> this ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master
>> turned down? The Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was too
>> noisy for home use.
>>
>> This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.
>
> Marshall 2204 50 W master volume amps: either JMP or JCM. I have an '81
> JCM 2204, one of the earliest ones. Really nice preamp OD although to
> my ears it's lacking sufficient low end for some things.
>
That's an 800? - After which the Statesman is supposedly modeled.

Tony D

Re: Good preamp OD? - RichL - 6-:24 -0-09-20

Tony Done <tonydone@bigpond.com> wrote:
> "RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:J_-dncvQD_kRDN_XnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> Tony Done <tonydone@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested
>>> in is good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality
>>> saturation by turning the gain up and the master down.
>>>
>>> I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have
>>> this ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master
>>> turned down? The Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was
>>> too noisy for home use.
>>>
>>> This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.
>>
>> Marshall 2204 50 W master volume amps: either JMP or JCM. I have an
>> '81 JCM 2204, one of the earliest ones. Really nice preamp OD
>> although to my ears it's lacking sufficient low end for some things.
>>
> That's an 800? - After which the Statesman is supposedly modeled.

Yup, it's an 800 but it doesn't have EL84s. Mine has 6550s but the
British versions have EL34s. However, the power tubes shouldn't
influence the sound of preamp distortion very much, so maybe there's a
common factor in the amp design that makes preamp distortion sound good.

Re: Good preamp OD? - Geetar Dave - 6-:24 -0-09-20

On Jun 24, 4:44=A0pm, "Tony Done" <tonyd...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested in i=
s
> good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality saturation b=
y
> turning the gain up and the master down.
>
> I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have this
> ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master turned down? =
The
> Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was too noisy for home use.
>
> This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.
>
> Tony D

I think the UK-era Vox AC15 reissues have a remarkable preamp gain.
Very musical and useful. It isn't for death metal or anything hard
edged like that, though.

The more I hear that amp, the more I realize it will be the last amp I
get rid of.

-dave-----:::
www.myspace.com/geetardave

Re: Good preamp OD? - Squier - 6-:24 -0-09-20

Re: Good preamp OD? - Rufus - 6-:24 -0-09-20

Re: Good preamp OD? - Squier - 6-:24 -0-09-20

> Tony Done <tonydone@bigpond.com> wrote:

> During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested in is
> good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality saturation by
> turning the gain up and the master down.
>
> I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have this
> ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master turned down? The
> Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was too noisy for home use.
>
> This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.
>
> Tony D
>

well ok. doh. I forgot to mention my own amp which is
a Fender Prosonic. But there are 2 gain knobs on the
drive channel and a Master (the normal clean channel is
just like a blackface - no master and just bass and treble tone pots)

Anyways - it has gain you wouldn't believe. Beyond a Mesa dual
and into triple rec. It stays cleaner sounding without all the
boogie fizz but it does have a bit of grit to it when you
start to really open it up (good grit).

The Soldano SLO amps and Hotrods have much cleaner high gain but sometimes
it kinda reminds me always of those 80's band sounds cliche scorching
lead solo sounds. But they do sound good actually.

Yeah I know - it's a Fender but this Prosonic is unlike any Fender
on the drive channel that you can imagine. I don't use the pre gain
dimed because it's over the top for anything I play - even the harder
stuff. So if you ever get a chance - also check out a Fender Prosonic.
If you ever play through a Fender Supersonic - that can get maybe half
the gain that the prosonic has on tap. It actually sounds best to me
with the gain turned down to under 4 and then let the tube power section
do its thing. Thick gritty sustain to lighter sounding bluesy grit.
Like the Soldanos - where you put the bass control and to an extent the
mids dials in more preamp grit or more clean sustain. If you turn up
the treble it will sing to you until even more gain and you get to
the feedback singing stuff. I think the Soldano SLO and Hotrod 50+
are easier to dial
in for high gain tones - you have to work with the Prosonic a bit to
get it dialed in just right.

You know Tony there are so many high gain channel amps out there
(Hotrod 50+ is basically a single channel high gain amp - same with
the Astroverb and Atomic) and of course multi-channel amps offering
high gain. But very few to my ears really sound good right away.
One of the reasons I decided to trade away my Mesa Mark III was that
it sounded different all the time and it was a bear to get dialed in
on the lead channel. The rhythm 1 clean channel was excellent though
and easy to dial in. But that Boogie sounded different on the lead
so I was always fiddling around with the knobs way too much.
I like to set it and forget it and not come near the amp until I'm done playing
a song set. Couldn't do that with the Boogie. In home playing it was
no big deal but playing it live it was a hassle and to me unprofessional
to keep having to twiddle with the amp all the time.

Hmmm.. I know some local bands have players always twiddling around
with their amps... sometimes between nearly every song. Maybe it's
just me but I don't think that's cool to do that all the time and
the working band I am in wouldn't stand for such nonsense all the time
during song sets.

One thing I'll say for fender amps (at least all the ones I have played
and all the Fenders I have now). Once you get to know them - you can get
them dialed in quickly and then set it and forget for the rest of the night.
No twiddling around or mucking around with them.

whew. I typed too much again.

Re: Good preamp OD? - Les Cargill - 6-:24 -0-09-20

Tony Done wrote:
> During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested in
> is good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality
> saturation by turning the gain up and the master down.
>
> I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have this
> ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master turned down?
> The Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was too noisy for home
> use.
>
> This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.
>
> Tony D
>

I was really impressed with a VHT Pitbull about ten years ago. This
was the 100 W head. I think it was 4 EL34. It has a three-stop
gain arrangement, and all three were good. Don't remember
if it was three full channels, or two-plus extra gain. All
three gian levels were available via footswitch.

This being said, I've heard more amps with solid state
preamps that sounded good overdriven than ones
with tube preamps. IMO, SS ones are damped better,
and it's more controlled. I still miss that Performer 650,
the overdrive on it is very good.

If I ever get the budget, I'll try a PoD with the
power section of my Blues Junior. I'll bet it's not
bad. I still think there's a market for SS preamps
designed to drive tube power sections, and have thought
that since the Music Man amps were current.

--
Les Cargill

Re: Good preamp OD? - DeeAa - 6-:25 -0-09-20

On 24 kes=E4, 23:44, "Tony Done" <tonyd...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> During the "EL84" thread I realised that what I am really interested in i=
s
> good clean and good preamp OD - where I can get high quality saturation b=
y
> turning the gain up and the master down.
>
> I've discussed my H&K Statesman to death, but what other amps have this
> ability to yield good extreme OD/distortion with the master turned down? =
The
> Mesa Express 5-25 could do it, but the clean was too noisy for home use.
>
> This is just curiosity, I'm not looking for another amp.
>
Ahh...I love discussing sound preferences like this :-)

Well, I have never heard a tube amp that sounded good like that.
Period. I know, some people like that sort of sound they give, as in
Mesa etc. but I just immensely dislike tube saturation without the
power tube crunch.
What I mean is kind of the sound like Santana has, or even Slash at
times, or Gary Moore - that annoying, thick and saturated 'flutey'
sound. I always do my best to avoid that 'guitar hero larger-than-
life' type sound. But hey, many many people like just that.

Don't get me wrong, I think tubes are da shaite when it come to guitar
sounds, I just only use OD, not distortion, and keep it kinda edgy,
steer away from the flutey. You can roam http://deeaa.pp.fi for lotsa
examples on what I like.
I also have an EL84 amp, and I have it set basically clean, but with
powerful EMG's it's kinda old-ACDC crunchy when played hard, and when
I hit a compressor-booster, it's really rockin' heavy but has clarity,
and for leads I also hit a reverb-booster and the amp just screams.
See the www.crankenhaus.com tunes for how it sounds.

BUT anyway, when it comes to extreme OD/Distortion, SS or semi-SS
devices are way better IMO than all-tube amps, especially if lesser
volumes are desired.

At extreme low volumes, I don't think one can beat tech-21 amps, they
are simply the shit when it comes to home levels very driven guitars,
simply amazing stuff. I've owned more than a dozen amps and
extensively tested many more including pods etc. but them techies take
the cake in versatility and sheer sound quality any day. BUT they
don't do good cleans. For that a ValveJr. or something along those
lines is way better. In fact, I think the cleaner a sound you want
(not dry-clean jazz though) the more you want the tube sound, and vice
versa, the heavier the sound, the less tubes are required. Tech 21's
don't really work so well as preamps either, they're more like
standalone stuff. They do have some preamps as well, or boosters etc.

I again find myself regretting selling the Marshall JMP-1 as
well...that unit has the best preamp sounds of any single unit I've
had. It can do clean, but it also can do clean cranked with a very
respectful tube crunch and at any levels. It can also give a great
marshall drive sound, a bit more on the buzzy/saturated side than the
real all-tube marshalls, but the speaker output and EQ can do wonders
to that. Methinks I will some day buy one again if I come accross one
at a reasonable price.

Cheers,

Dee

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