A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - Monster Zero - 6-:20 -0-09-20
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I've got a couple questions for anyone here willing to lend their opinions
and also for anyone who is tech savvy with studio and live equipment.
In between my Sabbath Tribute practice sessions which I've decided to play
everything in C# standard including songs that are in 440 or 1/2 step down,
I've discovered that I can sing just about anything with this tuning! Hell I
can even do the intro scream for Immigrant song and songs like The Zoo by
the Scorps. I'm wondering if any of you folks here think the sheeple at the
bars would notice that the band is tuned way down or even that they'd notice
"something aint right" to the point where they'd think it sucks? I'm talking
for non Sabbath stuff here.
OTOH I had a crazy idea to plug all instruments and vox straight into the
board (no instrument amps just modelers) and use wireless in ear monitors
but have the mains output come out a whole step higher? IOW we are playing
and singing in C# standard but the output that the crowd hears is in 1/2
step down.
I know it sounds silly and all but I wonder if it would work? A pitch
shifter into the fx loop on the mixer should do it but it would have to be
able to track chords and sound natural doing it and I dunno if such a device
exists at a reasonable cost? I'd also have to be able to trigger it on and
off somehow.
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - Andy - 6-:20 -0-09-20
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Monster Zero wrote:
> I've got a couple questions for anyone here willing to lend their opinions
> and also for anyone who is tech savvy with studio and live equipment.
>
> In between my Sabbath Tribute practice sessions which I've decided to play
> everything in C# standard including songs that are in 440 or 1/2 step down,
> I've discovered that I can sing just about anything with this tuning! Hell I
> can even do the intro scream for Immigrant song and songs like The Zoo by
> the Scorps. I'm wondering if any of you folks here think the sheeple at the
> bars would notice that the band is tuned way down or even that they'd notice
> "something aint right" to the point where they'd think it sucks? I'm talking
> for non Sabbath stuff here.
Can't imagine it'd be too much of a problem. Die hard fans might
notice.
> OTOH I had a crazy idea to plug all instruments and vox straight into the
> board (no instrument amps just modelers) and use wireless in ear monitors
> but have the mains output come out a whole step higher? IOW we are playing
> and singing in C# standard but the output that the crowd hears is in 1/2
> step down.
I think I'd vomit in that situation due to disorentation and being
thrown off by the (completely out of key) spill from the FOH.
> I know it sounds silly and all but I wonder if it would work?
Personally I doubt it.
> A pitch
> shifter into the fx loop on the mixer should do it but it would have to be
> able to track chords and sound natural doing it and I dunno if such a device
> exists at a reasonable cost? I'd also have to be able to trigger it on and
> off somehow.
Doubtful that it'd work, and doubtful that anything that would do such a
miraculous thing would be made from anything other than 'unobtainium'
materials costing ridiculous money.
Just my $0.02AUD.
Andy.
--
Registered Linux User #478766
Join the Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - Les Cargill - 6-:20 -0-09-20
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Monster Zero <rockindog@bragmail.com wrote:
> I've got a couple questions for anyone here willing to lend their opinions
> and also for anyone who is tech savvy with studio and live equipment.
>
> In between my Sabbath Tribute practice sessions which I've decided to play
> everything in C# standard including songs that are in 440 or 1/2 step down,
> I've discovered that I can sing just about anything with this tuning! Hell I
> can even do the intro scream for Immigrant song and songs like The Zoo by
> the Scorps. I'm wondering if any of you folks here think the sheeple at the
> bars would notice that the band is tuned way down or even that they'd notice
> "something aint right" to the point where they'd think it sucks? I'm talking
> for non Sabbath stuff here.
>
I think it usually sounds better, so long as the bass player doesn't
indulge in mid-bass buildup.
> OTOH I had a crazy idea to plug all instruments and vox straight into the
> board (no instrument amps just modelers) and use wireless in ear monitors
> but have the mains output come out a whole step higher? IOW we are playing
> and singing in C# standard but the output that the crowd hears is in 1/2
> step down.
>
Just do it without the pitch shifting.
> I know it sounds silly and all but I wonder if it would work? A pitch
> shifter into the fx loop on the mixer should do it but it would have to be
> able to track chords and sound natural doing it and I dunno if such a device
> exists at a reasonable cost? I'd also have to be able to trigger it on and
> off somehow.
>
>
--
Les Cargill
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - Monster Zero - 6-:20 -0-09-20
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"Andy" <nospam@no.no> wrote in message
news:024d933f$0$19421$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Monster Zero wrote:
>
>> I've got a couple questions for anyone here willing to lend their
>> opinions
>> and also for anyone who is tech savvy with studio and live equipment.
>>
>> In between my Sabbath Tribute practice sessions which I've decided to
>> play
>> everything in C# standard including songs that are in 440 or 1/2 step
>> down,
>> I've discovered that I can sing just about anything with this tuning!
>> Hell I
>> can even do the intro scream for Immigrant song and songs like The Zoo by
>> the Scorps. I'm wondering if any of you folks here think the sheeple at
>> the
>> bars would notice that the band is tuned way down or even that they'd
>> notice
>> "something aint right" to the point where they'd think it sucks? I'm
>> talking
>> for non Sabbath stuff here.
>
> Can't imagine it'd be too much of a problem. Die hard fans might
> notice.
>
>> OTOH I had a crazy idea to plug all instruments and vox straight into the
>> board (no instrument amps just modelers) and use wireless in ear monitors
>> but have the mains output come out a whole step higher? IOW we are
>> playing
>> and singing in C# standard but the output that the crowd hears is in 1/2
>> step down.
>
> I think I'd vomit in that situation due to disorentation and being
> thrown off by the (completely out of key) spill from the FOH.
>
>> I know it sounds silly and all but I wonder if it would work?
>
> Personally I doubt it.
>
>> A pitch
>> shifter into the fx loop on the mixer should do it but it would have to
>> be
>> able to track chords and sound natural doing it and I dunno if such a
>> device
>> exists at a reasonable cost? I'd also have to be able to trigger it on
>> and
>> off somehow.
>
> Doubtful that it'd work, and doubtful that anything that would do such a
> miraculous thing would be made from anything other than 'unobtainium'
> materials costing ridiculous money.
>
> Just my $0.02AUD.
>
> Andy.
>
> --
> Registered Linux User #478766
> Join the Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/
"I think I'd vomit in that situation due to disorentation and being
thrown off by the (completely out of key) spill from the FOH."
That is a good point and kinda funny too when I visualize it! You and Les
are right. I should just try it and see how it goes. Now I just gotta
convince a bass player that he or she needs to tune down 1 and a half steps.
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - Andy - 6-:20 -0-09-20
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Monster Zero wrote:
> "I think I'd vomit in that situation due to disorentation and being
> thrown off by the (completely out of key) spill from the FOH."
>
> That is a good point and kinda funny too when I visualize it!
Thankfully I've never vomited on stage.
Yet.
Andy.
--
Registered Linux User #478766
Join the Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - RichL - 6-:20 -0-09-20
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> "Andy" <nospam@no.no> wrote in message
> news:024d933f$0$19421$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> Monster Zero wrote:
>>
>>> I've got a couple questions for anyone here willing to lend their
>>> opinions
>>> and also for anyone who is tech savvy with studio and live
>>> equipment.
>>>
>>> In between my Sabbath Tribute practice sessions which I've decided
>>> to play
>>> everything in C# standard including songs that are in 440 or 1/2
>>> step down,
>>> I've discovered that I can sing just about anything with this
>>> tuning! Hell I
>>> can even do the intro scream for Immigrant song and songs like The
>>> Zoo by the Scorps. I'm wondering if any of you folks here think the
>>> sheeple at the
>>> bars would notice that the band is tuned way down or even that
>>> they'd notice
>>> "something aint right" to the point where they'd think it sucks? I'm
>>> talking
>>> for non Sabbath stuff here.
>>
>> Can't imagine it'd be too much of a problem. Die hard fans might
>> notice.
>>
>>> OTOH I had a crazy idea to plug all instruments and vox straight
>>> into the board (no instrument amps just modelers) and use wireless
>>> in ear monitors but have the mains output come out a whole step
>>> higher? IOW we are playing
>>> and singing in C# standard but the output that the crowd hears is
>>> in 1/2 step down.
>>
>> I think I'd vomit in that situation due to disorentation and being
>> thrown off by the (completely out of key) spill from the FOH.
>>
>>> I know it sounds silly and all but I wonder if it would work?
>>
>> Personally I doubt it.
>>
>>> A pitch
>>> shifter into the fx loop on the mixer should do it but it would
>>> have to be
>>> able to track chords and sound natural doing it and I dunno if such
>>> a device
>>> exists at a reasonable cost? I'd also have to be able to trigger it
>>> on and
>>> off somehow.
>>
>> Doubtful that it'd work, and doubtful that anything that would do
>> such a miraculous thing would be made from anything other than
>> 'unobtainium' materials costing ridiculous money.
>>
>> Just my $0.02AUD.
>>
>> Andy.
>>
>> --
>> Registered Linux User #478766
>> Join the Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/
>
> "I think I'd vomit in that situation due to disorentation and being
> thrown off by the (completely out of key) spill from the FOH."
>
> That is a good point and kinda funny too when I visualize it! You and
> Les are right. I should just try it and see how it goes. Now I just
> gotta convince a bass player that he or she needs to tune down 1 and
> a half steps.
It would probably be better simply to transpose the key for the bass
player. Just my opinion, but bassists don't tend to use open strings
very much and don't depend on open chords like we guitarists do.
Otherwise I don't see a problem tuning down. Lots of cover bands change
keys to make singing more comfortable anyways. The occasional purists
will fuss but let them spend the $200 + to see the actual bands in
concert.
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - VampX - 6-:21 -0-09-20
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On 2009-06-21 13:33:21 +1000, Andy <nospam@no.no> said:
> Thankfully I've never vomited on stage.
>
> Yet.
I wanna be there when you do.
--
VeronicaX
-------------------------------
Frack!
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - VampX - 6-:21 -0-09-20
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On 2009-06-21 13:40:33 +1000, "RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com> said:
> Lots of cover bands change
> keys to make singing more comfortable anyways.
I hate transposing or tuning down. It just doesn't sound the same to me
--
VeronicaX
-------------------------------
Frack!
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - McGarnagle - 6-:21 -0-09-20
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On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:40:33 -0400, "RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>Otherwise I don't see a problem tuning down. Lots of cover bands change
>keys to make singing more comfortable anyways. The occasional purists
>will fuss but let them spend the $200 + to see the actual bands in
>concert.
>
If that's a problem just be open about it and use the Ted Nugent line:
"Anyone who want's to be a purist can turn around and get the fuck
outta here"
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Re: A discovery! Tuning down, who'd a thunk it? - Meat Plow - 6-:21 -0-09-20
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:30:04 -0400, "RichL"
<rpleavitt@yahoo.com>wrote:
>VampX <veronicax@vampx.dot.net> wrote:
>> On 2009-06-21 13:40:33 +1000, "RichL" <rpleavitt@yahoo.com> said:
>>
>>> Lots of cover bands change
>>> keys to make singing more comfortable anyways.
>>
>> I hate transposing or tuning down. It just doesn't sound the same to
>> me
>
>If you're going to routinely play tuned down, I think you've got to
>carefully examine your string gauges, etc. Maybe also use one of those
>"baritone" guitar/bass hybrids also if you go down low enough?
>
Not if you record everything in the studio, transpose, then let the
vox loose.
Seriously, special setup considerations has always been an issue for
down-tuners including hybrid/custom string gauges.
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